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welcome to tales from the rabbit hole my

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guest today is Seth Shostak the senior

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astronomer at the SETI Institute

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Seth welcome to tales from the rabbit

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hole you know thanks very much Mike it's

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great to have you here and I've been

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happy to found obviously a SETI as any

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self-respecting nerd would be for a very

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very long time and SETI search for

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extraterrestrial intelligence I always

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think of that as being the telescope's

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pointing at the sky and the radio

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telescopes that saw it been my my big

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impression of what it's been about but

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of course you're a lot more than that

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and you can't kind of recently it seems

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like you've been branching out more into

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kind of science education and things

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like that and yeah SETI has kind of

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small three divisions the the Carl Sagan

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Center which itself has several

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divisions and then the center of

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Education and the center for public

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outreach can you can talk about how the

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the goal of SETI and your involvement in

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SETI has kind of evolved over the last

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say ten years or so well to be honest

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the SETI Institute was founded in 1984

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so that's a long time now and from the

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beginning it was seen as sort of a

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three-legged stool right on the one hand

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there was SETI on the second hand there

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was what we call astrobiology so that's

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looking for life but life in our own

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solar system which presumably isn't

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going to be very intelligent I mean if

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you find you know microbes under the

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sands of Mars you know they probably

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don't recite poetry to one another or if

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they do they keep it fairly quiet so

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that's a second branch but the third

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branch has always been education and

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outreach in other words to to give

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something back to the public so that's

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actually not so new we do it today but

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we've always done it if you will now

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when it comes to the science you know

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back in the days when said he was a NASA

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program it was much much a much larger

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project than today today 95 percent of

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the research done here research as

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opposed to education and outreach is in

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fact astrobiology

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now astrobiology you say that's mostly

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stuff within our solar system but is

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there an aspect of our biology where you

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look at kind of indications of

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biological life on say exit planets yes

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very definitely biological life I don't

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know that's it sounds almost redundant

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to me but thank you I mean I don't know

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but yes there are people here at the

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Institute who work in fact well good

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work and now well they used to work for

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the Kepler project it's a NASA project

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to find exoplanets to find planets

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around other stars and today you know

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that emphasis is being shifted away from

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discovering more planets always and hope

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the nice thing to do but two

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characterizing them in other words can

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you say anything about them other than

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you know their size or their their mass

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or their distance from their home star

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so can you for example detect anything

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in their atmospheres there was a press

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release today about a planet that has

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been found to have water vapor in its

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atmosphere you say maybe that's not so

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surprising but it's very hard to do and

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the fact that you know people can do

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that now that that's very interesting

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yeah that's very impressive and of

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course you know water vapor in the

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atmosphere is a good indicator of

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possible habitable planet well that's

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right unless you don't like the humidity

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yes yes for for our life for our

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purposes yeah I was looking at your the

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SETI Institute page and the things on

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the front page and your interesting

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thing that came out was the the fast

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radio bursts and you cook and it's this

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teaser headline fast radio bursts from

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space of baffled scientists for years

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but an explanation may come soon so

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what's actually coming down the pipeline

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with the the fast radio bursts that's

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not yeah that's an article I actually

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originally wrote for NBC's website and

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there was an announcement a couple of

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weeks ago by astronomers connected with

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the chyme

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radio telescope chime is a you know what

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is a very tortured acronym for Canadian

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hydrogen

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I don't know it was a radio telescope

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that it was built in Canada it's about

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3035 miles north of the American border

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actually it's in the Canadian Rockies

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British Columbia and it's a very big

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thing so it's very sensitive and it was

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originally designed to look at faraway

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galaxies but it turns out it's pretty

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much perfect for discussing as it

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discussing discovering what are called

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fast radio bursts and these are very

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brief I mean like an eye blink long

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radio screeches from the sky

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very mysterious but chime has been very

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successful in finding them and they

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recently published a paper in which they

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found you know eight more of these that

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repeat that's very important because you

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just go off once and you never see them

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again

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but if they repeat that means you can go

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back and study them so you know I think

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that we're gonna figure out what these

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fast radio bursts are pretty soon so

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that's that's kind of an interesting

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story I take it you don't think that

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they are aliens you think it's gonna be

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something kind of like a collapsing

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stars or rotating something or other

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yeah you know collision something stars

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eating stuff black holes eating stuff I

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mean the tendency certainly historically

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has always been whatever you found

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something new of course if it's new you

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don't usually understand it right away

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it takes a couple of years to figure out

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what it is but in those first couple of

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years everybody was oh it's aliens right

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here's blame for everything but it

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doesn't make much sense to have a fast

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radio bursts in that direction three

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billion light years away and then

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another one over here two billion light

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years away and then back there a couple

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of billion light years away I mean how

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did these these civilizations if that's

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what you think it they are you know that

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are separated by billions of light years

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actually arranged to all do the same

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kind of stupid thing just send out a

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little burp into the into the ether and

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it doesn't make too much sense yeah

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that'd be really spread out somebody I

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asked on Twitter for questions but

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people to ask you and somebody brought

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up the question of would they even use

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radios like these radio bursts might be

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a symptom of something else just like a

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side effect but

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is there a possibility using something

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else to community they were not looking

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at yeah in the case of the repeating

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fashion radio bursts of course you look

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at them again certainly with radio

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telescopes but also with optical

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telescopes do you see a flash of light

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for example you see anything else

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anything else we can measure and so far

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it's been the radio but you know who

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knows maybe with the more observations

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we'll find a little flashes of light

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that'll give you a clue to what it is

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but you know radio is the kind of if you

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will noise that many natural processes

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produce I mean you know you're just

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sitting there you're producing a little

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bit of radio noise believe it or not

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because your temperature is not zero

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right so everything does but these

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little bursts of radio it's very easy to

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make radio noise it's not terribly hard

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to make a little flash of light too but

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as far as other stuff well what other

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stuff we'll be talking about I mean you

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know neutrinos particles of some sort

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you might make that but yeah and I

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suppose that's kind of almost an appeal

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to magic really that it could be

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something that we just don't know about

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and you know about it why can we how can

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we measure it yeah also how can we

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discuss it and about it say well it's

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something we don't know well then you're

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done with the conversation yeah yeah oh

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something we do know about something you

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wrote about on your site or show it's

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kind of surprised to see on the front

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page was you read an article on storming

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area 51 and this is you know obviously

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very it's something that starts out to

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joke some guy said like we should all go

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to area 51 and release the aliens I said

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what prompted you to write about that

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well NBC again they asked me to write a

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path okay

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so I did but yeah yeah yeah no I mean

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it's sort of a popular story right it

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was an internet meme as you say and it

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was started as a joke and I don't know

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whether it ever progressed from being a

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joke to being something serious you know

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millions of people said they were keen

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on storming area 51 I don't know how

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many of them actually will do so the

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storm area 51 to begin with you're

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probably not gonna get very far the

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government you know it's a secret

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government facility they have fences

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they don't want you storm yet

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because their secrets they're not aliens

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I don't think there are any aliens there

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I knew people who work there but they

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didn't see any aliens but there are you

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know military aircraft in the idea is to

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keep them secret you don't want them

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being photographed and then you know put

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on the internet so that the the enemy

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can can see these things but also every

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51 I've been to that area of the country

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and you know if you don't have a food

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truck nearby you're gonna find it a

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little uncomfortable probably gonna be

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hot and not much to eat yeah hopefully

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nobody actually does go there because it

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could could be bad if a lot of people

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did because they don't really have the

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resources to to handle it but it's it's

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kind of an interesting cultural

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phenomena and I think it kind of shows

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how how deep this kind of aliens being

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held captive or whatever alien

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technology at area 51 meme is this is

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within within popular culture this was

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really you you must get us a lot our

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peoples and CNN Poland 2002 I think it

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was a toll up all done together with the

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Roper organization and they found that

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80% of the public that they asked seemed

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to think that the government was hiding

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evidence of aliens

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so if 80 percent believe that then you

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think a lot of people don't wanna want

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somebody to go storm area 51 yeah yeah

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something somebody else brought up on

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Twitter was the Fermi paradox which you

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know obviously you're familiar with

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which is the you know the the idea that

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if there was alien life in the galaxy

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then we should be able to see it because

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the just statistically he would have

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spread out through the galaxy by now

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unless we're very very unlucky so the

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fact that we don't see alien life

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throughout the galaxy is perhaps a good

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indication that there isn't any so

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what's your what's your personal take on

273
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the the Fermi paradox well I think the

274
00:10:41,710 --> 00:10:39,259
Fermi paradox is a great thing to bring

275
00:10:43,420 --> 00:10:41,720
up in a dinner conversation if you you

276
00:10:45,610 --> 00:10:43,430
know you you want to be invited to that

277
00:10:49,420 --> 00:10:45,620
dinner again maybe you shouldn't it it

278
00:10:51,670 --> 00:10:49,430
could get contentious but but it you

279
00:10:53,949 --> 00:10:51,680
know it's extrapolating from a very

280
00:10:56,150 --> 00:10:53,959
limited and local observation namely we

281
00:10:58,610 --> 00:10:56,160
don't see any aliens here so

282
00:11:00,320 --> 00:10:58,620
maybe they're no aliens anywhere right I

283
00:11:01,610 --> 00:11:00,330
mean that's like my you know walking out

284
00:11:04,100 --> 00:11:01,620
the door here and saying hey there's no

285
00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:04,110
Tigers out in the parking lot ear which

286
00:11:08,570 --> 00:11:06,930
I bet our he is true I doubt that there

287
00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:08,580
are any but it doesn't mean that there

288
00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:10,170
are no Tigers anywhere it just means

289
00:11:14,750 --> 00:11:11,970
that you know you're not a position to

290
00:11:16,670 --> 00:11:14,760
see them right and I feel the same way

291
00:11:18,230 --> 00:11:16,680
about the Fermi paradox to say that well

292
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:18,240
we don't see any evidence of aliens

293
00:11:21,530 --> 00:11:20,250
anywhere well how would you know I mean

294
00:11:23,660 --> 00:11:21,540
you might have picked up some radio

295
00:11:25,460 --> 00:11:23,670
signals that's what we try to do but if

296
00:11:28,490 --> 00:11:25,470
they're just building big societies on

297
00:11:30,950 --> 00:11:28,500
nearby planets you might have a very

298
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:30,960
hard time seeing that detecting that

299
00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:32,490
particularly if they're a little bit

300
00:11:37,010 --> 00:11:34,050
cryptic and they don't broadcast strong

301
00:11:39,500 --> 00:11:37,020
signals into space so you know I don't

302
00:11:42,170 --> 00:11:39,510
think it says very much other than as I

303
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:42,180
say is a interesting topic at your next

304
00:11:47,930 --> 00:11:44,010
cocktail party right

305
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:47,940
so you think yeah the the there might be

306
00:11:50,990 --> 00:11:49,530
lots of civilizations but they're all

307
00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:51,000
kind of a bit insular and that they're

308
00:11:54,250 --> 00:11:52,890
just you know the local solar systems

309
00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:54,260
and they're not really interested in

310
00:11:58,850 --> 00:11:56,250
going out in space

311
00:12:00,740 --> 00:11:58,860
well I wouldn't even go that far I mean

312
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:00,750
who's to say all we know is that we

313
00:12:04,550 --> 00:12:03,210
don't see any obvious evidence that

314
00:12:06,260 --> 00:12:04,560
doesn't say that they don't go into

315
00:12:07,670 --> 00:12:06,270
space but they could go into space and

316
00:12:11,450 --> 00:12:07,680
you just might never know I mean how

317
00:12:14,510 --> 00:12:11,460
would you know but you know being

318
00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:14,520
insular they might be cryptic they might

319
00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:16,290
be secretive because you don't know

320
00:12:20,570 --> 00:12:17,690
what's out there this is the usual

321
00:12:22,610 --> 00:12:20,580
argument against broadcasting deliberate

322
00:12:24,410 --> 00:12:22,620
signals that's something else I don't

323
00:12:25,820 --> 00:12:24,420
really buy but you know they're people

324
00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:25,830
like Stephen Hawking and said don't

325
00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:27,690
don't broadcast because you don't know

326
00:12:29,870 --> 00:12:28,410
what's out there

327
00:12:33,230 --> 00:12:29,880
that's true you don't know what's out

328
00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:33,240
there but whatever's out there is you

329
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:35,370
know a gonna be far away so that

330
00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:38,850
insulates you a little bit but be you

331
00:12:42,710 --> 00:12:40,800
know if they can do you any harm if they

332
00:12:44,420 --> 00:12:42,720
could come here and do you harm then

333
00:12:45,860 --> 00:12:44,430
they're way ahead of you technologically

334
00:12:48,530 --> 00:12:45,870
and they can also pick up your TV

335
00:12:51,410 --> 00:12:48,540
signals so you know that that's kind of

336
00:12:53,090 --> 00:12:51,420
a silly worry but it's also the case

337
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:53,100
that you know it's sort of like asking

338
00:12:56,810 --> 00:12:55,050
well did the ants in my backyard know

339
00:12:58,640 --> 00:12:56,820
that I live you know only 20 feet away

340
00:13:01,640 --> 00:12:58,650
from them and I would say they probably

341
00:13:03,350 --> 00:13:01,650
don't right if they have their own Fermi

342
00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:03,360
paradox either campaigning humans we

343
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:06,210
don't see the you mentioned picking up

344
00:13:08,900 --> 00:13:08,160
TV signals and something I've heard in

345
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:08,910
the kind of UFO

346
00:13:12,980 --> 00:13:10,560
community is like some dispute about

347
00:13:15,370 --> 00:13:12,990
whether they could pick up TV signals

348
00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:15,380
like could we actually pick up you know

349
00:13:19,190 --> 00:13:17,610
broadcasts that were meant but just you

350
00:13:21,020 --> 00:13:19,200
know within the planets like satellite

351
00:13:23,510 --> 00:13:21,030
signals and things like that

352
00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:23,520
from a solar system that's light-years

353
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:24,090
away

354
00:13:28,730 --> 00:13:26,490
well the satellite signals probably not

355
00:13:30,890 --> 00:13:28,740
satellites are very directed signals and

356
00:13:32,900 --> 00:13:30,900
you know the power on a satellite an

357
00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:32,910
orbiting satellite to send telemetry

358
00:13:36,380 --> 00:13:34,890
back is you know maybe it's ten watts or

359
00:13:38,750 --> 00:13:36,390
something like that and it's aimed down

360
00:13:40,370 --> 00:13:38,760
so you're not likely to pick that up but

361
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:40,380
things you could pick up are things like

362
00:13:43,790 --> 00:13:41,490
radar I don't know about their

363
00:13:46,010 --> 00:13:43,800
television they may not have television

364
00:13:48,050 --> 00:13:46,020
broadcast anymore I mean television is

365
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:48,060
only well it's less than a century old

366
00:13:52,340 --> 00:13:50,250
ear and we're already moving away from

367
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:52,350
broadcast so they may have done that a

368
00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:54,570
million years ago I mean you know the

369
00:13:58,790 --> 00:13:56,130
idea that they have big television

370
00:14:01,210 --> 00:13:58,800
antennas belching you know megawatts

371
00:14:05,270 --> 00:14:01,220
into space it might be very

372
00:14:06,650 --> 00:14:05,280
self-centered but one technology can

373
00:14:10,340 --> 00:14:06,660
figure that they probably do have

374
00:14:12,260 --> 00:14:10,350
because it's useful is radar radar and

375
00:14:14,660 --> 00:14:12,270
radar is a very strong signal

376
00:14:16,100 --> 00:14:14,670
you know from light-years away it's not

377
00:14:18,020 --> 00:14:16,110
so strong but it doesn't want depending

378
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:18,030
on the radar but it's the kind of thing

379
00:14:22,340 --> 00:14:20,090
that in another hundred years of

380
00:14:24,740 --> 00:14:22,350
technological progress here we would be

381
00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:24,750
able to pick up Wow so you'd actually be

382
00:14:29,570 --> 00:14:26,850
to pick up something like I guess maybe

383
00:14:32,030 --> 00:14:29,580
even like weather radar from another

384
00:14:34,100 --> 00:14:32,040
planet I mean every airport has a radar

385
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:34,110
yeah right and of course they're things

386
00:14:39,980 --> 00:14:35,610
for defense that are very powerful

387
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:39,990
radars but also radars used to determine

388
00:14:44,540 --> 00:14:42,450
the the orbits of asteroids at something

389
00:14:46,820 --> 00:14:44,550
in comets you you really want to do that

390
00:14:48,350 --> 00:14:46,830
even if you're Klingon I mean that

391
00:14:49,670 --> 00:14:48,360
that's something you'll always be

392
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:49,680
interested in and those are very

393
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:51,690
powerful radars that's true and it's

394
00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:53,970
like any sufficiently long lipstick

395
00:14:58,130 --> 00:14:55,650
ization would kind of have to have some

396
00:15:01,960 --> 00:14:58,140
kind of early warning signal all right

397
00:15:04,250 --> 00:15:01,970
yeah that sounds reasonable in it yeah

398
00:15:06,250 --> 00:15:04,260
someone someone brought up what they

399
00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:06,260
said was a what they thought was a

400
00:15:11,780 --> 00:15:09,330
contradiction with the use of the Drake

401
00:15:14,270 --> 00:15:11,790
Equation and the Fermi paradox they say

402
00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:14,280
that the Drake Equation says that there

403
00:15:18,470 --> 00:15:16,770
are yes there's got to be lots of life

404
00:15:19,820 --> 00:15:18,480
throughout the galaxy because if you

405
00:15:22,050 --> 00:15:19,830
multiply these numbers together and it

406
00:15:25,620 --> 00:15:22,060
comes up with a fairly high probability

407
00:15:29,340 --> 00:15:25,630
but then you also say that they won't be

408
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:29,350
here because things are so far away do

409
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:31,570
you see any conflicts between like you

410
00:15:35,070 --> 00:15:33,010
know using the Drake Equation to say

411
00:15:37,170 --> 00:15:35,080
that there's lots of life within the

412
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:37,180
galaxy and also saying that we wouldn't

413
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:39,370
be at see it well to begin with the

414
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:40,810
Drake Equation doesn't say that there's

415
00:15:45,180 --> 00:15:42,610
a lots of life in the galaxy you can

416
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:45,190
depending on what terms you're in it you

417
00:15:48,750 --> 00:15:47,050
can say that because to begin with it's

418
00:15:50,910 --> 00:15:48,760
not about life it's about intelligent

419
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:50,920
life and in fact technologically

420
00:15:55,050 --> 00:15:53,650
competent life but you know I mean

421
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:55,060
depending on the numbers you put in you

422
00:15:58,710 --> 00:15:56,290
can come out there with the fact that

423
00:16:00,630 --> 00:15:58,720
we're totally alone or that the place is

424
00:16:02,730 --> 00:16:00,640
chock-a-block with intelligence so you

425
00:16:04,590 --> 00:16:02,740
know it's not that it makes a strong

426
00:16:09,780 --> 00:16:04,600
prediction it just gives you a way to

427
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:09,790
discuss the subject but you know again I

428
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:11,770
don't think that the Fermi paradox is

429
00:16:18,270 --> 00:16:15,970
terribly useful right again you know I

430
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:18,280
mean I didn't see any bears in my garden

431
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:20,170
this morning doesn't tell me much about

432
00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:22,690
the prevalence of bears so I you know I

433
00:16:26,730 --> 00:16:24,370
don't get any information out of the

434
00:16:29,820 --> 00:16:26,740
Fermi paradox the fact that we haven't

435
00:16:30,990 --> 00:16:29,830
detected anything is undoubtedly just

436
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:31,000
the result of the fact that we're not

437
00:16:34,260 --> 00:16:32,650
very good at detecting stuff keep in

438
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:34,270
mind we've had radio for a hundred years

439
00:16:38,430 --> 00:16:36,610
or something like that right you know

440
00:16:41,420 --> 00:16:38,440
big optical telescopes we've had for

441
00:16:45,390 --> 00:16:41,430
less than a hundred years so our ability

442
00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:45,400
to find you know sophisticated societies

443
00:16:50,100 --> 00:16:47,530
is pretty limited I mean it's better

444
00:16:53,190 --> 00:16:50,110
than what the Romans had but it's not a

445
00:16:56,130 --> 00:16:53,200
normal sleep better yeah the Drake

446
00:16:56,610 --> 00:16:56,140
Equation do you think he has any use at

447
00:16:59,250 --> 00:16:56,620
all

448
00:17:01,770 --> 00:16:59,260
how does Isis I see people use it as

449
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:01,780
like justification for policy like doing

450
00:17:05,070 --> 00:17:03,250
doing research into certain things

451
00:17:08,070 --> 00:17:05,080
because the Drake Equation says a

452
00:17:10,980 --> 00:17:08,080
certain thing now the terms in the Drake

453
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:10,990
Equation certainly lead to areas of

454
00:17:14,550 --> 00:17:12,730
interesting research I mean one of the

455
00:17:16,740 --> 00:17:14,560
terms is the fraction of planets that

456
00:17:18,870 --> 00:17:16,750
cook up life all right what does that

457
00:17:20,790 --> 00:17:18,880
point into well how did life get started

458
00:17:22,410 --> 00:17:20,800
is it likely to have gotten started on

459
00:17:23,610 --> 00:17:22,420
any other worlds that kind of thing I

460
00:17:26,730 --> 00:17:23,620
mean that's it that's a very legitimate

461
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:26,740
topic of astrobiology research and there

462
00:17:30,330 --> 00:17:27,970
are plenty of people working on there

463
00:17:32,130 --> 00:17:30,340
plenty okay because it's interesting I

464
00:17:33,870 --> 00:17:32,140
mean how did earth develop life it got

465
00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:33,880
it got started very quickly on this

466
00:17:35,820 --> 00:17:35,200
planet sounds like it probably wasn't

467
00:17:38,070 --> 00:17:35,830
very hard

468
00:17:39,570 --> 00:17:38,080
but you don't know until I do you find

469
00:17:41,910 --> 00:17:39,580
it somewhere else or you understand how

470
00:17:43,380 --> 00:17:41,920
it got started on earth and we still

471
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:43,390
don't know how it got started on earth

472
00:17:49,170 --> 00:17:46,450
there are a lot of theories but you know

473
00:17:50,430 --> 00:17:49,180
we don't know for sure but you know the

474
00:17:52,050 --> 00:17:50,440
terms of the Drake Equation the Drake

475
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:52,060
Equation is very valuable in the sense

476
00:17:58,820 --> 00:17:56,050
that any astronomy textbook you buy any

477
00:18:01,620 --> 00:17:58,830
you know astronomy 101 course you take

478
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:01,630
will cover the Drake Equation because it

479
00:18:10,140 --> 00:18:05,970
is a great way to get into the topics of

480
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:10,150
astrobiology and of course SETI yeah and

481
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:13,570
the and the Drake Equation that just

482
00:18:19,830 --> 00:18:16,290
refers to our galaxy is that correct

483
00:18:21,570 --> 00:18:19,840
well I mean you could one galaxy is the

484
00:18:23,580 --> 00:18:21,580
same as the next galaxy pretty much I

485
00:18:25,530 --> 00:18:23,590
mean there there are categories of

486
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:25,540
galaxies but mm-hmm

487
00:18:29,070 --> 00:18:27,250
you know there are two trillion galaxies

488
00:18:30,660 --> 00:18:29,080
in the visible universe and at least

489
00:18:33,570 --> 00:18:30,670
half of them are sort of like the Milky

490
00:18:37,050 --> 00:18:33,580
Way so yeah yeah I suppose all those

491
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:37,060
galaxies are essentially makeup beyond

492
00:18:41,610 --> 00:18:39,250
what you might be researching in terms

493
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:41,620
of alien life is there any theoretical

494
00:18:45,570 --> 00:18:43,690
way of people thinking that they might

495
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:45,580
be able to detect anything that comes

496
00:18:50,540 --> 00:18:48,730
from another galaxy well sure I mean and

497
00:18:53,070 --> 00:18:50,550
it's been done in fact there been

498
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:53,080
observations I did some myself now it's

499
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:54,850
nearby galaxies you point the radio

500
00:18:57,930 --> 00:18:56,410
telescope at a nearby galaxy and if

501
00:18:59,940 --> 00:18:57,940
there's a very powerful transmitter

502
00:19:01,950 --> 00:18:59,950
there or one that's for some reason

503
00:19:03,780 --> 00:19:01,960
aimed at our galaxy you might pick it up

504
00:19:05,490 --> 00:19:03,790
and the big advantages when you look at

505
00:19:07,470 --> 00:19:05,500
another galaxy you know you might be

506
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:07,480
looking at many billions of stars

507
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:11,050
hundreds of billions of stars at once so

508
00:19:16,110 --> 00:19:13,290
it's kind of a wholesale Survey of

509
00:19:17,070 --> 00:19:16,120
course galaxies are farther away and so

510
00:19:19,530 --> 00:19:17,080
the signals would have to be very

511
00:19:22,050 --> 00:19:19,540
powerful or they'd have to be aimed your

512
00:19:24,210 --> 00:19:22,060
way which you know is something that who

513
00:19:25,950 --> 00:19:24,220
knows what a society a million years

514
00:19:27,780 --> 00:19:25,960
more advanced than ours might want to do

515
00:19:29,490 --> 00:19:27,790
maybe you know sending a signal to

516
00:19:33,330 --> 00:19:29,500
another galaxy is a high school science

517
00:19:35,190 --> 00:19:33,340
fair project yeah yeah that would be a

518
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:35,200
because the nearest galaxy is a very

519
00:19:40,290 --> 00:19:37,210
long way away in terms of how long it

520
00:19:41,910 --> 00:19:40,300
would take a signal to get here so yeah

521
00:19:43,980 --> 00:19:41,920
there's that Alexei's are the Magellanic

522
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:43,990
Clouds and they're on the order of a

523
00:19:49,500 --> 00:19:45,970
hundred thousand light years away yeah

524
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:49,510
what's the closest star that is in

525
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:51,730
testing that you think might be

526
00:19:58,050 --> 00:19:56,410
something well in the nearest other star

527
00:20:00,420 --> 00:19:58,060
Proxima Centauri is known to have a

528
00:20:01,980 --> 00:20:00,430
planet so and at that might even be

529
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:01,990
inhabited I mean it might be habitable

530
00:20:06,780 --> 00:20:04,450
no one knows if it's inhabited of course

531
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:06,790
how I'm almost every star has planted so

532
00:20:11,910 --> 00:20:09,490
the the nearest stars of interest are

533
00:20:13,590 --> 00:20:11,920
the nearest stars is that that they're

534
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:13,600
just like the four or five light-years

535
00:20:20,060 --> 00:20:17,890
away yeah yes you do I think Proxima

536
00:20:22,170 --> 00:20:20,070
Centauri yep that's a great thing to

537
00:20:23,970 --> 00:20:22,180
fantasize about if you found something

538
00:20:25,380 --> 00:20:23,980
interesting on those stars there's the

539
00:20:27,690 --> 00:20:25,390
possibility of communication with

540
00:20:30,140 --> 00:20:27,700
Chester oh yeah know if you're willing

541
00:20:32,610 --> 00:20:30,150
to take the nearest million star systems

542
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:32,620
then the average distance is you know

543
00:20:37,710 --> 00:20:35,050
roughly 150 light-years now that that

544
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:37,720
means the communication is slow but it's

545
00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:40,930
not impossibly slow mmm-hmm with the

546
00:20:47,340 --> 00:20:42,400
idea of having some communication within

547
00:20:49,290 --> 00:20:47,350
your lifetime second there are dozens of

548
00:20:51,180 --> 00:20:49,300
star systems that are close close enough

549
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:51,190
for that yeah that would be if you can

550
00:20:57,410 --> 00:20:54,130
get the fun yeah that would be such an

551
00:21:01,410 --> 00:20:57,420
amazing thing to happen in our lifetimes

552
00:21:04,110 --> 00:21:01,420
but an interesting thing is the what's

553
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:04,120
known as tabby star which was something

554
00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:05,410
that was in the news like a few years

555
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:07,360
ago and it was the star that was giving

556
00:21:12,390 --> 00:21:10,210
out these kind of intermittent signals

557
00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:12,400
like it was it was in brightness I

558
00:21:17,790 --> 00:21:14,370
believe and people thought that it was

559
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:17,800
some kind of mega structure around the

560
00:21:21,630 --> 00:21:19,810
star but like kind of faded away as that

561
00:21:24,450 --> 00:21:21,640
could have been more or less resolved as

562
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:24,460
to what what it was well there are good

563
00:21:30,330 --> 00:21:26,770
indications that the problem was dust

564
00:21:33,180 --> 00:21:30,340
actually I mean but it wasn't that it

565
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:33,190
was brightening it was dimming it was

566
00:21:37,740 --> 00:21:34,810
dimming you know every couple of days

567
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:37,750
every couple of weeks yeah you so it

568
00:21:42,900 --> 00:21:40,770
would dim by you know like 20 percent

569
00:21:45,390 --> 00:21:42,910
occasionally and that's an enormous

570
00:21:47,220 --> 00:21:45,400
amount of giving you know that's not due

571
00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:47,230
to a planet getting in front of the star

572
00:21:51,930 --> 00:21:49,510
and that's something else and then one

573
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:51,940
suggestion made by Jason Wright actually

574
00:21:58,260 --> 00:21:54,970
at Penn State was well it could be some

575
00:22:00,870 --> 00:21:58,270
sort of half completed Dyson Sphere some

576
00:22:03,180 --> 00:22:00,880
sort of alien mega-structure you know

577
00:22:05,850 --> 00:22:03,190
some artificial construction that was

578
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:05,860
walking the light but when astronomers

579
00:22:12,870 --> 00:22:08,890
looked at this star and and look at the

580
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:12,880
dimming using a telescope that could

581
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:14,530
determine what colored the dimming was

582
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:17,290
it was reddish and that's the signature

583
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:20,530
of dust right a lot of dust in a lot of

584
00:22:27,540 --> 00:22:24,850
solar systems so most likely was just

585
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:27,550
clouds of dust probably not aliens yeah

586
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:29,200
that's what the redness is essentially

587
00:22:32,370 --> 00:22:30,850
the same thing as a sunset you know just

588
00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:32,380
like being filtered through the the

589
00:22:37,410 --> 00:22:35,200
atmosphere you give us the exact same

590
00:22:38,580 --> 00:22:37,420
interference with the wavelengths as you

591
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:38,590
would with dust that's that's very

592
00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:40,210
interesting that's there you can try to

593
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:44,370
figure that out after a while that's

594
00:22:51,540 --> 00:22:49,690
moving onto a kind of UFO ology do you

595
00:22:55,500 --> 00:22:51,550
do you have a lot of interaction with

596
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:55,510
people in the UFO community well I guess

597
00:23:00,600 --> 00:22:57,850
I do I mean I get phone calls or emails

598
00:23:02,670 --> 00:23:00,610
essentially every day from people this

599
00:23:04,260 --> 00:23:02,680
is usually the general public but they

600
00:23:06,660 --> 00:23:04,270
you know they want to report something

601
00:23:08,730 --> 00:23:06,670
they've seen or they have photos they

602
00:23:09,810 --> 00:23:08,740
have videos I occasionally go to

603
00:23:12,330 --> 00:23:09,820
conferences where there are

604
00:23:16,350 --> 00:23:12,340
presentations from people in the UFO

605
00:23:19,050 --> 00:23:16,360
community community such as alien Con

606
00:23:20,370 --> 00:23:19,060
and stuff like that so I know several of

607
00:23:23,340 --> 00:23:20,380
the people in this community and I

608
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:23,350
certainly talked with them did you enjoy

609
00:23:27,300 --> 00:23:25,090
doing that that type of thing is it

610
00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:27,310
something that's you like the kind of

611
00:23:30,930 --> 00:23:29,200
the science fiction aspects of it or is

612
00:23:34,110 --> 00:23:30,940
it that it's actual science there that

613
00:23:36,570 --> 00:23:34,120
you you enjoy doing well from my point

614
00:23:39,780 --> 00:23:36,580
of view it's science fiction from their

615
00:23:41,820 --> 00:23:39,790
point of view it's science so yes I

616
00:23:43,860 --> 00:23:41,830
enjoy talking to people about this but

617
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:43,870
on the other hand when I sit there and

618
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:46,570
listen to some of the presentations by

619
00:23:51,450 --> 00:23:49,690
some of these people not not all but by

620
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:51,460
some of these people they're you know

621
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:53,410
they're very misleading the presentation

622
00:23:58,680 --> 00:23:56,410
and they ignore some you know well-known

623
00:24:00,900 --> 00:23:58,690
science and stuff like that so that can

624
00:24:02,790 --> 00:24:00,910
be a little bit frustrating to me yeah

625
00:24:05,940 --> 00:24:02,800
what are the types of mistakes that you

626
00:24:07,890 --> 00:24:05,950
see coming up over and over again well

627
00:24:09,530 --> 00:24:07,900
they will refer to phenomena that

628
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:09,540
actually have a very obvious

629
00:24:14,190 --> 00:24:12,130
astronomical explanation that doesn't

630
00:24:16,980 --> 00:24:14,200
involve aliens but they will insist that

631
00:24:18,419 --> 00:24:16,990
it's aliens or they will simply say

632
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:18,429
a lot of them do what's called an

633
00:24:23,460 --> 00:24:20,770
argument from ignorance the big thing

634
00:24:25,230 --> 00:24:23,470
these days seems to be disclosure right

635
00:24:26,730 --> 00:24:25,240
we're gonna wait for a disclosure there

636
00:24:28,980 --> 00:24:26,740
a lot of people you know they'll take

637
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:28,990
your money to help fund their efforts to

638
00:24:33,750 --> 00:24:31,690
promote disclosure and as far as I can

639
00:24:36,870 --> 00:24:33,760
tell disclosure means having the US

640
00:24:38,430 --> 00:24:36,880
government come clean and say well we

641
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:38,440
know about the aliens and here they are

642
00:24:44,549 --> 00:24:41,410
stacked up it wherever very 51 whatever

643
00:24:46,110 --> 00:24:44,559
your favorite stack-up location is they

644
00:24:47,850 --> 00:24:46,120
don't seem to be pressuring for example

645
00:24:50,250 --> 00:24:47,860
the Belgian government to come clean or

646
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:50,260
the Luxembourg government or the

647
00:24:54,030 --> 00:24:51,970
Brazilians of the Botswana and sort of

648
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:54,040
the Bolivians or anybody else it's just

649
00:24:57,270 --> 00:24:56,050
the US government because after all the

650
00:24:59,880 --> 00:24:57,280
US government has all the good evidence

651
00:25:02,070 --> 00:24:59,890
somehow it doesn't even make sense but

652
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:02,080
yeah a guy thing and and I think that

653
00:25:05,910 --> 00:25:04,450
this is such a weak argument well the

654
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:05,920
only way we can prove that this is true

655
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:08,290
is having the government tell us that

656
00:25:13,110 --> 00:25:11,530
it's true right oh yeah at that that

657
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:13,120
didn't make any sense to me it's

658
00:25:19,980 --> 00:25:15,130
essentially the argument for the the

659
00:25:21,870 --> 00:25:19,990
storm area51 meme is it's they're saying

660
00:25:23,190 --> 00:25:21,880
that there's aliens there and all we

661
00:25:25,169 --> 00:25:23,200
have to do is go and force the

662
00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:25,179
government to tell them so that they're

663
00:25:30,030 --> 00:25:27,910
saying like just tell us but if there's

664
00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:30,040
nothing to tell then it's a meaningless

665
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:32,110
question in any way and they wouldn't

666
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:33,490
believe it I mean if the government does

667
00:25:37,290 --> 00:25:35,650
say that they say there aren't aliens at

668
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:37,300
area 51 but nobody's gonna believe that

669
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:39,250
so it really doesn't resolve anything

670
00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:41,530
unless they go in and look at every

671
00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:43,840
square inch of area 51 and don't find

672
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:45,130
any aliens and even that wouldn't

673
00:25:48,780 --> 00:25:46,570
resolve anything they would say they

674
00:25:51,270 --> 00:25:48,790
knew we were coming and so they've moved

675
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:51,280
all the aliens - you know Trenton New

676
00:25:56,030 --> 00:25:54,250
Jersey or someplace yeah now the US

677
00:25:58,740 --> 00:25:56,040
government does have some space

678
00:26:00,780 --> 00:25:58,750
operations that are secret they have

679
00:26:02,610 --> 00:26:00,790
their own little little space plane that

680
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:02,620
flies in orbit and they have all their

681
00:26:07,049 --> 00:26:04,330
secret spy satellites and things like

682
00:26:08,610 --> 00:26:07,059
that first of course the government

683
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:08,620
secrets of the Defense Department has

684
00:26:13,740 --> 00:26:11,290
secrets but to say because they have

685
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:13,750
secrets they also have aliens that's a

686
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:16,330
very interesting bit of logic yes indeed

687
00:26:20,190 --> 00:26:18,010
but I suppose it does leave the door

688
00:26:22,290 --> 00:26:20,200
open because there are there are secrets

689
00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:22,300
and you don't know other secrets are

690
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:24,130
that yet they're making the assumption

691
00:26:30,270 --> 00:26:27,970
the secrecy no that's an argument from

692
00:26:30,899 --> 00:26:30,280
it yeah you don't know what but they

693
00:26:33,479 --> 00:26:30,909
have so will

694
00:26:35,700 --> 00:26:33,489
soon they have aliens yeah yeah so are

695
00:26:38,609 --> 00:26:35,710
you familiar with to the Stars Academy

696
00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:38,619
we're Tom DeLonge yes yes so that

697
00:26:43,729 --> 00:26:41,049
they've what do you think of these these

698
00:26:46,979 --> 00:26:43,739
three videos that they put out recently

699
00:26:48,899 --> 00:26:46,989
well I haven't seen too much of that I

700
00:26:50,669 --> 00:26:48,909
mean as to the Stars Academy is not a

701
00:26:52,769 --> 00:26:50,679
research organization they're of a

702
00:26:55,109 --> 00:26:52,779
television production organization best

703
00:26:57,029 --> 00:26:55,119
I could tell reading their prospectus so

704
00:27:00,239 --> 00:26:57,039
they're in the business of making TV

705
00:27:03,269 --> 00:27:00,249
shows and you know I mean that that's

706
00:27:05,729 --> 00:27:03,279
fine but it's not the research biz right

707
00:27:08,669 --> 00:27:05,739
so III assume that you're referring to

708
00:27:11,070 --> 00:27:08,679
their produced shows and not the video

709
00:27:12,719 --> 00:27:11,080
the gunsight videos from the Navy no I'm

710
00:27:14,279 --> 00:27:12,729
referring to the gunsight videos I'm

711
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:14,289
wondering what your take is on this with

712
00:27:18,690 --> 00:27:15,970
the ones that they show basically little

713
00:27:20,759 --> 00:27:18,700
black blobs either in the distance or

714
00:27:22,919 --> 00:27:20,769
moving very fast over the water or

715
00:27:24,180 --> 00:27:22,929
there's one that rotates right Mike how

716
00:27:25,649 --> 00:27:24,190
do you know they're moving fast

717
00:27:29,609 --> 00:27:25,659
they look like they're moving fast but I

718
00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:29,619
know that they're moving fast but you

719
00:27:34,649 --> 00:27:32,559
know a bug two feet in front of my face

720
00:27:36,210 --> 00:27:34,659
when it flies past me looks like it's

721
00:27:38,879 --> 00:27:36,220
moving really fast

722
00:27:40,619 --> 00:27:38,889
right but yeah it's you you need to know

723
00:27:42,930 --> 00:27:40,629
the distance to know whether it's moving

724
00:27:44,669 --> 00:27:42,940
fast that that you know people call me

725
00:27:46,710 --> 00:27:44,679
up all the time I saw a UFO and it was

726
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:46,720
moving faster than any aircraft we have

727
00:27:51,899 --> 00:27:49,090
well how do you know well actually they

728
00:27:54,089 --> 00:27:51,909
don't know they just say that but in

729
00:27:56,789 --> 00:27:54,099
terms of the videos yeah those are

730
00:27:58,409 --> 00:27:56,799
infrared gunsight camera videos and the

731
00:28:00,119 --> 00:27:58,419
are mysterious there's no doubt about it

732
00:28:02,009 --> 00:28:00,129
but they're certainly not conclusive

733
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:02,019
either these two blobs to look like the

734
00:28:06,749 --> 00:28:04,210
according to a military pilot I talked

735
00:28:09,060 --> 00:28:06,759
to he said they look like the you know

736
00:28:10,769 --> 00:28:09,070
the the exhausts of jet engines of a

737
00:28:13,039 --> 00:28:10,779
plane that's a you know mile or two in

738
00:28:15,089 --> 00:28:13,049
front of wherever these guys are and

739
00:28:17,879 --> 00:28:15,099
because it's an infrared camera of

740
00:28:19,529 --> 00:28:17,889
course they appear dark hue meaning they

741
00:28:21,299 --> 00:28:19,539
triggered the response in the camera and

742
00:28:24,029 --> 00:28:21,309
then of course if that plane banks then

743
00:28:25,349 --> 00:28:24,039
they seem to rotate a little bit hey you

744
00:28:26,969 --> 00:28:25,359
know you could explain it all that way

745
00:28:28,889 --> 00:28:26,979
and if you can explain it all that way

746
00:28:31,229 --> 00:28:28,899
then you ought to consider that because

747
00:28:33,859 --> 00:28:31,239
maybe it's something like that and not

748
00:28:35,789 --> 00:28:33,869
Klingons teasing the US Navy

749
00:28:37,259 --> 00:28:35,799
particularly the videos on the east

750
00:28:38,159 --> 00:28:37,269
coast of the US because the pilot said

751
00:28:41,070 --> 00:28:38,169
well they could see these things

752
00:28:42,539 --> 00:28:41,080
essentially every day well if they can

753
00:28:44,550 --> 00:28:42,549
see them every day what about all the

754
00:28:46,410 --> 00:28:44,560
the pleasure boaters you know

755
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:46,420
sailing around that part of the the

756
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:49,330
ocean why don't they see them why don't

757
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:52,090
our satellites see them not that Defense

758
00:28:55,230 --> 00:28:53,440
Department satellites you can say oh

759
00:28:56,730 --> 00:28:55,240
those are all covered up but they're

760
00:28:58,410 --> 00:28:56,740
plenty of other satellites and from

761
00:29:00,720 --> 00:28:58,420
other countries well they don't seem to

762
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:00,730
see them amateur astronomers never see

763
00:29:04,470 --> 00:29:03,130
to seeing them I mean why is it that you

764
00:29:06,990 --> 00:29:04,480
know only the government can see them

765
00:29:09,300 --> 00:29:07,000
yeah and the commercial airline pilots I

766
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:09,310
think what it would say we're not gonna

767
00:29:13,980 --> 00:29:11,650
fly in that part of the you know the

768
00:29:15,750 --> 00:29:13,990
country because doggone it they're these

769
00:29:17,790 --> 00:29:15,760
alien craft there and they don't flop

770
00:29:19,230 --> 00:29:17,800
file a flight plan so we're gonna avoid

771
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:19,240
that they don't say that

772
00:29:22,110 --> 00:29:20,890
yeah that's a very busy part of the

773
00:29:25,380 --> 00:29:22,120
country obviously with only the

774
00:29:26,850 --> 00:29:25,390
transatlantic traffic over the Northeast

775
00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:26,860
you have done quite a bit of research

776
00:29:30,450 --> 00:29:28,510
into those those videos I think they're

777
00:29:32,730 --> 00:29:30,460
the one that rotates I don't think it's

778
00:29:35,130 --> 00:29:32,740
actually the plane rotating I think it's

779
00:29:37,860 --> 00:29:35,140
actually an optical thing with the

780
00:29:39,990 --> 00:29:37,870
gimbal system on the camera when it

781
00:29:41,730 --> 00:29:40,000
rotates it changes the optical path and

782
00:29:46,230 --> 00:29:41,740
it actually makes the shape of the

783
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:46,240
highlight of the glare rotated it's it's

784
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:47,170
something you can you can actually

785
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:49,210
demonstrate with with with regular

786
00:29:54,090 --> 00:29:52,240
cameras because it's mounted facing

787
00:29:56,340 --> 00:29:54,100
forward it's only got a rotational axis

788
00:29:58,980 --> 00:29:56,350
along the long forward axis and then an

789
00:30:01,590 --> 00:29:58,990
up-and-down access rare which means that

790
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:01,600
when it pans from left to right it has

791
00:30:05,010 --> 00:30:03,130
this thing like a gimbal lock in the

792
00:30:08,490 --> 00:30:05,020
middle if it's panning and it's pointing

793
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:08,500
down a bit it can't rotate around a

794
00:30:10,830 --> 00:30:09,850
vertical axis they could any rotate

795
00:30:12,870 --> 00:30:10,840
around the forward axis and an

796
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:12,880
up-and-down axis so it has to combine

797
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:14,410
these two rotations and when it gets to

798
00:30:19,290 --> 00:30:17,170
the middle it actually has to do this

799
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:19,300
this was weird kind of translation to

800
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:20,850
flip over and then rotate the other way

801
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:23,650
and this is actually something you can

802
00:30:29,430 --> 00:30:27,490
see in the patent for the the appFolio

803
00:30:31,710 --> 00:30:29,440
system that they used is it as a thing

804
00:30:33,570 --> 00:30:31,720
called a d' rotation mechanism that

805
00:30:35,670 --> 00:30:33,580
keeps the image upright even though the

806
00:30:37,140 --> 00:30:35,680
optics are rotating so you've got this

807
00:30:38,370 --> 00:30:37,150
thing where they it looks like the

808
00:30:42,300 --> 00:30:38,380
camera is not rotating which it actually

809
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:42,310
is and then that causes the glare to

810
00:30:45,750 --> 00:30:43,930
actually rotate and I think that is

811
00:30:47,100 --> 00:30:45,760
actually what's going on in this one

812
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:47,110
that looks like it's rotating because he

813
00:30:50,580 --> 00:30:48,850
does rotate a bit 90 degrees which would

814
00:30:52,950 --> 00:30:50,590
be impossible for a you know for a

815
00:30:54,900 --> 00:30:52,960
regular plane mm-hmm that's interesting

816
00:30:56,100 --> 00:30:54,910
yeah I could send you my video

817
00:30:57,990 --> 00:30:56,110
explanation of that if you are

818
00:31:01,659 --> 00:30:58,000
interested

819
00:31:03,549 --> 00:31:01,669
so you think that to the stars Academy

820
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:03,559
is just you know it's just a production

821
00:31:09,460 --> 00:31:05,690
company and you you we see like lots of

822
00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:09,470
other TV shows like you know unexplained

823
00:31:13,930 --> 00:31:11,840
or yes strange evidence and things like

824
00:31:18,690 --> 00:31:13,940
you know Discovery Channel shows do you

825
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:18,700
think that's kind of a bad thing science

826
00:31:24,159 --> 00:31:22,370
well I mean it's true that science

827
00:31:26,110 --> 00:31:24,169
literacy in the United States isn't at a

828
00:31:28,029 --> 00:31:26,120
very high level particularly compared

829
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:28,039
with Europe I lived in Europe for 13

830
00:31:33,100 --> 00:31:31,130
years and my impression was that the the

831
00:31:35,019 --> 00:31:33,110
science literacy the public was

832
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:35,029
definitely better than in the u.s.

833
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:39,440
that's for sure but you know to say it

834
00:31:42,639 --> 00:31:41,090
hurts it doesn't hurt

835
00:31:45,159 --> 00:31:42,649
I mean you know how many people get hurt

836
00:31:46,990 --> 00:31:45,169
because they believe in UFOs you know

837
00:31:48,909 --> 00:31:47,000
that aliens are visiting earth you the

838
00:31:50,860 --> 00:31:48,919
aliens are great about this because they

839
00:31:52,299 --> 00:31:50,870
never kill anybody they don't solve any

840
00:31:54,370 --> 00:31:52,309
of our problems they don't do anything

841
00:31:56,620 --> 00:31:54,380
as far as I can tell except you know

842
00:31:58,480 --> 00:31:56,630
promote these kind of television shows I

843
00:32:00,430 --> 00:31:58,490
mean there's that but you know I don't

844
00:32:02,919 --> 00:32:00,440
think those are as anybody either I mean

845
00:32:04,389 --> 00:32:02,929
there's some things in science where the

846
00:32:06,909 --> 00:32:04,399
public doesn't understand science they

847
00:32:08,769 --> 00:32:06,919
do hurt I mean you know if you don't

848
00:32:10,899 --> 00:32:08,779
believe in climate change that's gonna

849
00:32:12,909 --> 00:32:10,909
hurt you because there's rather little

850
00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:12,919
doubt about climate change if you don't

851
00:32:17,139 --> 00:32:14,510
think that vaccines actually keep your

852
00:32:19,419 --> 00:32:17,149
kid from dying that's gonna hurt I mean

853
00:32:22,090 --> 00:32:19,429
you know we worked out the statistics

854
00:32:24,370 --> 00:32:22,100
here not too long ago and it turned out

855
00:32:26,289 --> 00:32:24,380
getting your kid you know not getting

856
00:32:28,510 --> 00:32:26,299
your kid vaccinated was a million times

857
00:32:30,100 --> 00:32:28,520
more lethal than getting your kid

858
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:30,110
vaccinated some people will die from

859
00:32:33,850 --> 00:32:32,690
vaccinations not because of the you know

860
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:33,860
you know the ingredients that they like

861
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:35,570
to target but you know just some people

862
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:38,000
are going to be resistant to to the

863
00:32:41,289 --> 00:32:39,890
vaccines in it you know have a negative

864
00:32:43,419 --> 00:32:41,299
reaction in the same way that some

865
00:32:44,590 --> 00:32:43,429
people will die from aspirin but you

866
00:32:47,500 --> 00:32:44,600
know it doesn't mean that aspirin is a

867
00:32:50,409 --> 00:32:47,510
bad thing so you know in that case I

868
00:32:53,470 --> 00:32:50,419
think that you have real harm if you

869
00:32:55,330 --> 00:32:53,480
believe in the pseudoscience but in the

870
00:32:57,490 --> 00:32:55,340
case of UFOs if you want to believe it I

871
00:32:58,480 --> 00:32:57,500
mean hey you know I don't have any

872
00:32:59,380 --> 00:32:58,490
problem I mean if you want to believe in

873
00:33:01,870 --> 00:32:59,390
Santa Claus

874
00:33:03,370 --> 00:33:01,880
our angels or ghosts I mean it's roughly

875
00:33:05,409 --> 00:33:03,380
the same fraction of the population that

876
00:33:07,090 --> 00:33:05,419
believes in angels and goes as believe

877
00:33:09,580 --> 00:33:07,100
that we're being visited by UFOs it's

878
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:09,590
about a third and you know not too many

879
00:33:12,700 --> 00:33:10,730
people suffer

880
00:33:14,950 --> 00:33:12,710
terrible effects because they believe in

881
00:33:17,740 --> 00:33:14,960
ghosts yeah it might even be a positive

882
00:33:19,270 --> 00:33:17,750
thing I think just fostering an interest

883
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:19,280
in science like I know I was very

884
00:33:25,330 --> 00:33:23,810
interested in in UFOs as a child and you

885
00:33:27,340 --> 00:33:25,340
know it's more of a believer then but

886
00:33:29,140 --> 00:33:27,350
then I got more into reading about you

887
00:33:32,170 --> 00:33:29,150
know real science popular science books

888
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:32,180
and Here I am now so it's it's a good

889
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:34,130
skills like a good excuse to talk about

890
00:33:39,370 --> 00:33:37,010
science yeah I think that's true I've

891
00:33:40,900 --> 00:33:39,380
certainly gone into classrooms and it's

892
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:40,910
a good hook to get them interested in

893
00:33:44,650 --> 00:33:41,810
what you're going to tell them about

894
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:44,660
because they are interested UFOs indeed

895
00:33:49,870 --> 00:33:47,210
when I was 13 years old or whatever I

896
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:49,880
bought books about UFOs and George

897
00:33:53,830 --> 00:33:52,250
Adamski and stuff like this you know

898
00:33:54,940 --> 00:33:53,840
with flying saucers in them and so forth

899
00:33:57,370 --> 00:33:54,950
you're quite right

900
00:34:00,250 --> 00:33:57,380
yeah and I think that it's also applies

901
00:34:02,430 --> 00:34:00,260
to flat earth I know you did a show on

902
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:02,440
Flat Earth on big-picture science

903
00:34:08,250 --> 00:34:06,410
recently and that I think you know you

904
00:34:10,690 --> 00:34:08,260
can you open it up with doing the

905
00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:10,700
classic experiment with the two sticks

906
00:34:14,380 --> 00:34:12,800
where you measure the angle of the Sun

907
00:34:15,460 --> 00:34:14,390
and then again you know eight hundred

908
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:15,470
miles to the north and then you

909
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:17,210
determine from that you know that the

910
00:34:21,310 --> 00:34:19,610
earth appears to be curved because the

911
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:21,320
the angle is different so it's like

912
00:34:25,380 --> 00:34:22,850
little science experiments you can do

913
00:34:28,149 --> 00:34:25,390
like that that come from things like

914
00:34:29,980 --> 00:34:28,159
essentially pseudoscience it's almost

915
00:34:32,169 --> 00:34:29,990
like training people to investigate

916
00:34:34,810 --> 00:34:32,179
suicide if ik claims is a good way of

917
00:34:36,490 --> 00:34:34,820
teaching them real science yeah no

918
00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:36,500
that's true I again I don't know that

919
00:34:40,659 --> 00:34:38,240
many people are hurt by the fact that

920
00:34:43,090 --> 00:34:40,669
they think the earth is flat I I kind of

921
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:43,100
wonder what what they believe when they

922
00:34:50,110 --> 00:34:46,330
fly from New York to Tokyo right and

923
00:34:51,460 --> 00:34:50,120
doggonit date me you're at sea you know

924
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:51,470
that the airlines seem to think the

925
00:34:55,780 --> 00:34:53,210
earth is curved and it's better to fly a

926
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:55,790
great circle route because of that they

927
00:35:00,130 --> 00:34:57,290
don't go in the straight line and all

928
00:35:02,860 --> 00:35:00,140
that kind of stuff but you know I don't

929
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:02,870
think it kills anybody you know so

930
00:35:06,610 --> 00:35:04,730
that's different than as I say some of

931
00:35:09,100 --> 00:35:06,620
these other cases where pseudoscience

932
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:09,110
will lead you to make bad choices yeah

933
00:35:15,730 --> 00:35:11,090
you know and those are mostly medical

934
00:35:18,130 --> 00:35:15,740
things a question I got on Twitter this

935
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:18,140
is kind of slightly silly well a very

936
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:21,050
silly question but it was how would SETI

937
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:22,970
continues to get funded if it's

938
00:35:27,250 --> 00:35:24,290
disclosed that UFOs

939
00:35:28,510 --> 00:35:27,260
real and that et is visiting earth how

940
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:28,520
do you respond to questions like that

941
00:35:32,620 --> 00:35:31,010
yeah well look if he teased our visiting

942
00:35:34,210 --> 00:35:32,630
earth I'm gonna go out and visit you

943
00:35:37,020 --> 00:35:34,220
know ETS

944
00:35:39,670 --> 00:35:37,030
I mean I'm sure that there but you know

945
00:35:42,490 --> 00:35:39,680
many people would do and in fact a

946
00:35:44,170 --> 00:35:42,500
British scientist won't send to me you

947
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:44,180
know Seth if I thought there was a 1%

948
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:46,850
chance anything in this UFO stuff was

949
00:35:49,150 --> 00:35:48,530
real I would spend all my time working

950
00:35:50,860 --> 00:35:49,160
on it

951
00:35:52,780 --> 00:35:50,870
well if you could somehow come across

952
00:35:54,550 --> 00:35:52,790
with with really good evidence I mean

953
00:35:56,380 --> 00:35:54,560
good observational evidence you'd have

954
00:35:56,950 --> 00:35:56,390
tens of thousands of scientists working

955
00:35:58,510 --> 00:35:56,960
on it

956
00:35:59,860 --> 00:35:58,520
right I mean the idea that the

957
00:36:01,750 --> 00:35:59,870
government could cover all that up is

958
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:01,760
just silly it's like my neighbors saying

959
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:04,010
I got the cure for cancer but I'm gonna

960
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:06,050
keep it stacked up in my spare bedroom

961
00:36:10,900 --> 00:36:08,170
and nobody's gonna know not very

962
00:36:12,850 --> 00:36:10,910
interesting but as soon as you know he

963
00:36:14,650 --> 00:36:12,860
comes across and publishes a paper or

964
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:14,660
whatever you're gonna have many many

965
00:36:18,850 --> 00:36:17,090
many people looking into that yeah

966
00:36:21,820 --> 00:36:18,860
people sometimes New York I do like a

967
00:36:23,620 --> 00:36:21,830
bunch of UFO debunking type stuff online

968
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:23,630
and people sometimes say well yeah what

969
00:36:27,340 --> 00:36:24,650
are you gonna do when you're proved

970
00:36:30,610 --> 00:36:27,350
wrong and the proof that aliens are

971
00:36:32,410 --> 00:36:30,620
actually visiting the earth as if as if

972
00:36:33,850 --> 00:36:32,420
this is gonna be a huge negative and if

973
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:33,860
this actually was proved it would be

974
00:36:37,330 --> 00:36:35,450
this most amazing thing ever and I would

975
00:36:38,890 --> 00:36:37,340
be like all over it it would be amazing

976
00:36:40,780 --> 00:36:38,900
just well that's right I think what

977
00:36:42,670 --> 00:36:40,790
they're really saying is you're gonna

978
00:36:44,890 --> 00:36:42,680
feel bad when I'm right and you're wrong

979
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:44,900
I think that's what the hand is yeah but

980
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:46,490
I would I would happily take it I would

981
00:36:51,150 --> 00:36:48,770
happily take being wrong but uh you know

982
00:36:54,580 --> 00:36:51,160
I don't really see the evidence yet

983
00:36:57,700 --> 00:36:54,590
another Twitter question was do you

984
00:37:00,970 --> 00:36:57,710
would you look into a genomic Wow signal

985
00:37:02,610 --> 00:37:00,980
from prehistoric ET visitation I guess

986
00:37:06,190 --> 00:37:02,620
this is the idea that there would be

987
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:06,200
markers in the human genome that

988
00:37:11,530 --> 00:37:09,770
indicated some kind of alien visitation

989
00:37:13,390 --> 00:37:11,540
a long time ago like something that's

990
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:13,400
something that's not natural in the

991
00:37:17,770 --> 00:37:14,930
genome is this something you've even

992
00:37:19,570 --> 00:37:17,780
thought about well a lot of people have

993
00:37:21,370 --> 00:37:19,580
thought about it actually and it was

994
00:37:24,490 --> 00:37:21,380
suggested at a conference I was at in

995
00:37:26,470 --> 00:37:24,500
Australia by Paul Davies he's now at the

996
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:26,480
Arizona State University very clever

997
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:29,330
physicist and he said you know we should

998
00:37:32,950 --> 00:37:31,490
just put a grad student on it and just I

999
00:37:36,180 --> 00:37:32,960
mean we've sequenced the human genome

1000
00:37:37,870 --> 00:37:36,190
now at just you know look for look for

1001
00:37:40,750 --> 00:37:37,880
indeed

1002
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:40,760
mathematics or any case non-random stuff

1003
00:37:45,430 --> 00:37:42,770
in there there's all this junk DNA and

1004
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:45,440
maybe it's in there now as far as I know

1005
00:37:48,340 --> 00:37:46,850
he hasn't found a grad student willing

1006
00:37:50,530 --> 00:37:48,350
to do it yet I don't know what it feel

1007
00:37:53,350 --> 00:37:50,540
is it I mean I I don't think that's a

1008
00:37:55,630 --> 00:37:53,360
bad idea but to begin with junk DNA is

1009
00:37:58,210 --> 00:37:55,640
now considered not quite so junky

1010
00:37:59,740 --> 00:37:58,220
it does have some effects and then there

1011
00:38:02,500 --> 00:37:59,750
are all sorts of there's a whole field

1012
00:38:05,140 --> 00:38:02,510
of epigenetics which is kind of reshaped

1013
00:38:07,540 --> 00:38:05,150
our thinking about the you know the DNA

1014
00:38:10,030 --> 00:38:07,550
and the genetics of how that worked but

1015
00:38:12,700 --> 00:38:10,040
I mean it still maybe not a bad idea but

1016
00:38:14,230 --> 00:38:12,710
I honestly think that if aliens had

1017
00:38:16,900 --> 00:38:14,240
visited earth a long time ago and they

1018
00:38:19,300 --> 00:38:16,910
said okay Zork you know we're gonna

1019
00:38:22,660 --> 00:38:19,310
leave but who knows a hundred million

1020
00:38:25,240 --> 00:38:22,670
years from now maybe some intelligent

1021
00:38:27,850 --> 00:38:25,250
species will arise and we need to leave

1022
00:38:31,570 --> 00:38:27,860
a calling cards to let them know that we

1023
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:31,580
came to visit their planet so what are

1024
00:38:35,230 --> 00:38:33,170
your plans for doing that well we could

1025
00:38:37,510 --> 00:38:35,240
just leave a thumb drive here you know a

1026
00:38:39,100 --> 00:38:37,520
buried in concrete all right now well I

1027
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:39,110
tell you what we could put something in

1028
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:41,570
orbit they'll find that eventually right

1029
00:38:45,730 --> 00:38:44,570
no no let's reaction ear some organisms

1030
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:45,740
here that are going to lead to those

1031
00:38:51,790 --> 00:38:48,170
critters and put it into the DNA

1032
00:38:53,860 --> 00:38:51,800
yeah but Zork DNA mutates all the time

1033
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:53,870
that's called evolution we're gonna lose

1034
00:38:58,960 --> 00:38:57,050
the message well I mean mm-hmm

1035
00:39:01,390 --> 00:38:58,970
yeah you know it just doesn't sound like

1036
00:39:03,430 --> 00:39:01,400
to me the right way to do anything but I

1037
00:39:05,290 --> 00:39:03,440
suppose if so I wants to look into it

1038
00:39:07,570 --> 00:39:05,300
and they can go for a short like you

1039
00:39:09,910 --> 00:39:07,580
said these the day data is there I think

1040
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:09,920
it's a two week project actually yeah

1041
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:11,330
and they could probably just do some

1042
00:39:15,970 --> 00:39:13,490
statistical analysis of the data or

1043
00:39:17,380 --> 00:39:15,980
something like that hey someone asked a

1044
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:17,390
question which I thought was kind of

1045
00:39:20,650 --> 00:39:19,130
interesting which is the is that

1046
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:20,660
changing debate about the

1047
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:22,850
anthropomorphic assumption SETI makes

1048
00:39:28,990 --> 00:39:26,530
about ETI extraterrestrial intelligence

1049
00:39:31,060 --> 00:39:29,000
there's very little debate about it I

1050
00:39:33,090 --> 00:39:31,070
think but you could have a debate about

1051
00:39:36,820 --> 00:39:33,100
I mean I I don't know that we make any

1052
00:39:38,290 --> 00:39:36,830
anthropomorphic as you know assumptions

1053
00:39:41,590 --> 00:39:38,300
and that means that we assume that the

1054
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:41,600
aliens sort of look like humans but the

1055
00:39:46,210 --> 00:39:44,210
experiment do we do that you know

1056
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:46,220
nowhere I mean we're looking for signals

1057
00:39:50,290 --> 00:39:48,010
and and and the aliens have made the

1058
00:39:51,340 --> 00:39:50,300
transmitters might look like you know

1059
00:39:54,310 --> 00:39:51,350
typewriters or

1060
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:54,320
bicycles or who knows what and we make

1061
00:39:59,380 --> 00:39:57,050
any anthropomorphic assumptions there we

1062
00:40:01,120 --> 00:39:59,390
do however make the assumption that

1063
00:40:03,610 --> 00:40:01,130
their biological and that they're on a

1064
00:40:05,500 --> 00:40:03,620
planet kind of like the earth right with

1065
00:40:07,900 --> 00:40:05,510
atmospheres and oceans and all that sort

1066
00:40:09,670 --> 00:40:07,910
of thing and that might be wrong I mean

1067
00:40:11,350 --> 00:40:09,680
my own views that most of the aliens

1068
00:40:13,300 --> 00:40:11,360
have moved on to synthetic intelligence

1069
00:40:15,430 --> 00:40:13,310
and so they're they're not restricted to

1070
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:15,440
earth-like planets or planets of any

1071
00:40:21,250 --> 00:40:18,530
sort so you know aiming our antennas in

1072
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:21,260
the directions of star systems might be

1073
00:40:25,780 --> 00:40:24,050
missing the boat that that could be what

1074
00:40:27,910 --> 00:40:25,790
do you think of the the argument about

1075
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:27,920
the I guess it's the von Neumann machine

1076
00:40:33,670 --> 00:40:30,410
thing where a self-replicating robots

1077
00:40:35,410 --> 00:40:33,680
would populate the galaxy and this seems

1078
00:40:37,300 --> 00:40:35,420
like some people to be an inevitability

1079
00:40:39,900 --> 00:40:37,310
and that the fact that it hasn't hasn't

1080
00:40:42,670 --> 00:40:39,910
happened indicates that we're the only

1081
00:40:44,590 --> 00:40:42,680
life-form in the galaxy yeah this is

1082
00:40:46,930 --> 00:40:44,600
another flavor of the Fermi paradox of

1083
00:40:47,860 --> 00:40:46,940
course and it's that well you what

1084
00:40:50,140 --> 00:40:47,870
you'll do is you'll build

1085
00:40:52,180 --> 00:40:50,150
self-replicating machines and then

1086
00:40:53,590 --> 00:40:52,190
they'll get away from you and start you

1087
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:53,600
know consuming everything in the

1088
00:40:59,200 --> 00:40:56,210
universe to make more machines you know

1089
00:41:02,740 --> 00:40:59,210
we have these kinds of machines here on

1090
00:41:04,330 --> 00:41:02,750
earth they're called insects and insects

1091
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:04,340
you know they're self-replicating and

1092
00:41:08,980 --> 00:41:06,410
they try and can you know eat everything

1093
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:08,990
in sight but they don't eat everything

1094
00:41:14,860 --> 00:41:11,330
inside in the end I mean you go up to

1095
00:41:17,350 --> 00:41:14,870
any plant right and you'll find it it's

1096
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:17,360
been nibbled away by insects but they

1097
00:41:21,130 --> 00:41:19,730
very seldom eat the whole plant right

1098
00:41:24,310 --> 00:41:21,140
why is that well there's you know

1099
00:41:26,170 --> 00:41:24,320
there's competiting they run out of the

1100
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:26,180
resources I mean there all sorts of if

1101
00:41:31,780 --> 00:41:29,530
you will natural brakes on having this

1102
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:31,790
phenomenon run to if you will to

1103
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:33,770
completion to the point where it it gets

1104
00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:35,810
rid of everything so it could be that

1105
00:41:40,060 --> 00:41:37,730
there are ongoing minimum machines but

1106
00:41:43,540 --> 00:41:40,070
they just don't eat everything right we

1107
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:43,550
haven't seen them nearby you know but

1108
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:45,290
again how would you know

1109
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:48,050
how would you know what experiment you

1110
00:41:53,230 --> 00:41:50,330
to prove that there are no such machines

1111
00:41:55,420 --> 00:41:53,240
out there yeah indeed yeah we can't we

1112
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:55,430
can't see them and if they're not

1113
00:42:02,230 --> 00:41:57,650
transmitting towards us then we wouldn't

1114
00:42:04,609 --> 00:42:02,240
know yeah UFO enthusiasts like when they

1115
00:42:07,489 --> 00:42:04,619
they talk about you

1116
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:07,499
because you're a fairly famous scientist

1117
00:42:12,259 --> 00:42:10,170
and you well-known within the UFO

1118
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:12,269
community a lot of them can have a

1119
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:15,210
negative assessment of you in that they

1120
00:42:21,499 --> 00:42:19,440
feel that you are mocking them I hope I

1121
00:42:22,849 --> 00:42:21,509
don't do that but maybe I do I mean I

1122
00:42:25,460 --> 00:42:22,859
don't know of course it's gonna have a

1123
00:42:27,739 --> 00:42:25,470
negative view of me because I challenge

1124
00:42:31,069 --> 00:42:27,749
what they say so I'm not surprised by

1125
00:42:33,349 --> 00:42:31,079
that sometimes they I mean yeah I was

1126
00:42:36,229 --> 00:42:33,359
reading something the other day online

1127
00:42:38,420 --> 00:42:36,239
and about me and it was an article that

1128
00:42:39,979 --> 00:42:38,430
I had written it may have been stoned I

1129
00:42:42,049 --> 00:42:39,989
don't even remember which article was

1130
00:42:44,569 --> 00:42:42,059
but it doesn't matter their comments

1131
00:42:47,390 --> 00:42:44,579
were not shall we say gentle or friendly

1132
00:42:50,900 --> 00:42:47,400
and most of them were ad hominem attacks

1133
00:42:53,359 --> 00:42:50,910
they weren't arguing with what I was

1134
00:42:55,819 --> 00:42:53,369
saying they were just saying that I was

1135
00:42:58,099 --> 00:42:55,829
a worthless person or worse than that

1136
00:43:00,130 --> 00:42:58,109
and I remember my wife came over and she

1137
00:43:02,690 --> 00:43:00,140
said why are you reading this stuff

1138
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:02,700
which was a good question in a way I

1139
00:43:07,519 --> 00:43:04,410
mean people you know people are gonna

1140
00:43:09,859 --> 00:43:07,529
hate right and but they but I find it

1141
00:43:11,749 --> 00:43:09,869
again kind of I guess it was about

1142
00:43:13,729 --> 00:43:11,759
disclosure that I'd written but I I

1143
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:13,739
found it kind of disappointing that

1144
00:43:18,259 --> 00:43:15,450
their best arguments were at hominem

1145
00:43:19,549 --> 00:43:18,269
attacks that was that's what it was it

1146
00:43:22,279 --> 00:43:19,559
wasn't because what I was saying was

1147
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:22,289
likely to have some merit it was because

1148
00:43:29,180 --> 00:43:25,890
as a hominid I didn't have any merit yes

1149
00:43:31,099 --> 00:43:29,190
yeah I get okay that's as well people

1150
00:43:33,769 --> 00:43:31,109
yeah yeah I do Punk things like

1151
00:43:35,209 --> 00:43:33,779
conspiracy theories like more extreme

1152
00:43:37,579 --> 00:43:35,219
ones like chemtrails and things like

1153
00:43:39,469 --> 00:43:37,589
that and people often say that I must be

1154
00:43:41,150 --> 00:43:39,479
a government shill and therefore yeah

1155
00:43:43,670 --> 00:43:41,160
you have to listen to any of my

1156
00:43:45,170 --> 00:43:43,680
arguments yeah yeah but if your

1157
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:45,180
government shield I mean I get accused

1158
00:43:49,700 --> 00:43:46,890
of that too and I always figure well if

1159
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:49,710
that's true I mean don't I get a bunch

1160
00:43:55,789 --> 00:43:51,690
of checks I mean you know I think gonna

1161
00:43:58,279 --> 00:43:55,799
pay me for being a shell yes seems and

1162
00:44:00,799 --> 00:43:58,289
the chance I've never never got a check

1163
00:44:02,209 --> 00:44:00,809
I've written one book and that's that's

1164
00:44:04,549 --> 00:44:02,219
the only money I've ever made from

1165
00:44:07,690 --> 00:44:04,559
debunking this stuff but it's very very

1166
00:44:11,150 --> 00:44:07,700
interesting I still I love the idea of

1167
00:44:14,180 --> 00:44:11,160
it researching UFOs have you ever had

1168
00:44:15,469 --> 00:44:14,190
any kind of UFO experience yourself I

1169
00:44:18,140 --> 00:44:15,479
mean you would probably don't think it's

1170
00:44:19,750 --> 00:44:18,150
aliens but some weird unexplained

1171
00:44:22,130 --> 00:44:19,760
thing that you still flying in the sky

1172
00:44:25,029 --> 00:44:22,140
well I did see something when I was

1173
00:44:28,250 --> 00:44:25,039
driving down to what they call the 405

1174
00:44:30,470 --> 00:44:28,260
better known to cognoscenti is the San

1175
00:44:32,390 --> 00:44:30,480
Diego freeway in Los Angeles and there

1176
00:44:33,829 --> 00:44:32,400
was something you know some spherical

1177
00:44:36,769 --> 00:44:33,839
things or two hovering there in the

1178
00:44:39,109 --> 00:44:36,779
skies which was very puzzling at first

1179
00:44:41,150 --> 00:44:39,119
but when I got a little closer it turned

1180
00:44:42,589 --> 00:44:41,160
out to be a blimp and I was seeing it

1181
00:44:46,819 --> 00:44:42,599
head-on

1182
00:44:49,010 --> 00:44:46,829
quickly so that was kind of amusing and

1183
00:44:52,849 --> 00:44:49,020
and I also saw something

1184
00:44:54,559 --> 00:44:52,859
where was it Sierra Vista Arizona I went

1185
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:54,569
down there to give a talk maybe a year

1186
00:44:58,190 --> 00:44:56,970
ago something like that and again there

1187
00:44:59,750 --> 00:44:58,200
was something hovering in the skies and

1188
00:45:01,339 --> 00:44:59,760
it was definitely not moving and it was

1189
00:45:02,900 --> 00:45:01,349
just so what it didn't look like an

1190
00:45:04,549 --> 00:45:02,910
aircraft because an aircraft eventually

1191
00:45:06,470 --> 00:45:04,559
will will move one way or the other it's

1192
00:45:08,990 --> 00:45:06,480
coming right at you but usually it makes

1193
00:45:13,220 --> 00:45:09,000
a turn but it turned out that it was a

1194
00:45:16,579 --> 00:45:13,230
tethered balloon system too with cameras

1195
00:45:18,319 --> 00:45:16,589
on it to watch the us-mexico border and

1196
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:18,329
the locals told me that it's always up

1197
00:45:23,599 --> 00:45:21,170
there that's for what it's mysterious

1198
00:45:26,329 --> 00:45:23,609
yeah that's quite a few balloon new

1199
00:45:29,390 --> 00:45:26,339
balloons now there's the the Google loon

1200
00:45:31,430 --> 00:45:29,400
project which of these giant balloons

1201
00:45:32,930 --> 00:45:31,440
are they using to like bring Wi-Fi to

1202
00:45:34,819 --> 00:45:32,940
other places and I think that's going to

1203
00:45:36,529 --> 00:45:34,829
lead to a lot of a lot of new sightings

1204
00:45:38,029 --> 00:45:36,539
and of course weather balloons

1205
00:45:39,260 --> 00:45:38,039
you know people joke about weather

1206
00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:39,270
balloons like oh it's always a weather

1207
00:45:44,059 --> 00:45:41,250
balloon but a lot of sightings actually

1208
00:45:46,220 --> 00:45:44,069
aren't weather balloons yeah yeah I mean

1209
00:45:47,930 --> 00:45:46,230
you know there's a whole laundry list of

1210
00:45:50,089 --> 00:45:47,940
things that people mistake for alien

1211
00:45:51,410 --> 00:45:50,099
craft and certainly balloons are among

1212
00:45:53,029 --> 00:45:51,420
them and not just weather balloons just

1213
00:45:55,279 --> 00:45:53,039
sometimes party balloons they get loose

1214
00:45:57,500 --> 00:45:55,289
and if you're only a mile from where the

1215
00:45:59,450 --> 00:45:57,510
party was and suddenly you see these you

1216
00:46:02,510 --> 00:45:59,460
know white dots in the sky moving in

1217
00:46:04,279 --> 00:46:02,520
formation you know it could be a little

1218
00:46:07,549 --> 00:46:04,289
mysterious but it could be party

1219
00:46:10,250 --> 00:46:07,559
balloons you know from your perspective

1220
00:46:12,470 --> 00:46:10,260
what advice would you give a UFO

1221
00:46:13,789 --> 00:46:12,480
enthusiast who is convinced that the

1222
00:46:16,029 --> 00:46:13,799
government is withholding information

1223
00:46:19,250 --> 00:46:16,039
how do you think they should proceed

1224
00:46:20,390 --> 00:46:19,260
with our belief well I mean obviously

1225
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:20,400
they could support some of these

1226
00:46:24,829 --> 00:46:23,130
organizations that are you know arguing

1227
00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:24,839
for disclosure but that presumes that

1228
00:46:29,690 --> 00:46:27,510
there's something to disclose and B that

1229
00:46:31,970 --> 00:46:29,700
if there is that they will disclose it

1230
00:46:34,790 --> 00:46:31,980
III think that that's

1231
00:46:38,540 --> 00:46:34,800
of an unproductive way to proceed

1232
00:46:41,750 --> 00:46:38,550
although it is the number one you know I

1233
00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:41,760
don't know I guess you call it the

1234
00:46:48,140 --> 00:46:44,880
number one tactic of choice but I would

1235
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:48,150
say if we're really being visited you

1236
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:50,400
know the evidence isn't all going to be

1237
00:46:54,349 --> 00:46:52,050
collected by the US government the US

1238
00:46:56,450 --> 00:46:54,359
government isn't everywhere right I mean

1239
00:46:57,770 --> 00:46:56,460
if if aliens land on my backyard the

1240
00:47:00,470 --> 00:46:57,780
government isn't gonna know about that

1241
00:47:04,130 --> 00:47:00,480
unless I tell them right so there's

1242
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:04,140
plenty of room for them to in fact do

1243
00:47:08,570 --> 00:47:06,450
their own experiments maybe and and and

1244
00:47:11,030 --> 00:47:08,580
you know I go to places where people

1245
00:47:13,820 --> 00:47:11,040
routinely cite things and and see if

1246
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:13,830
there is anything going on or just look

1247
00:47:17,060 --> 00:47:15,330
at I don't know that I mean there's

1248
00:47:19,250 --> 00:47:17,070
there are plenty of weather maps that

1249
00:47:20,330 --> 00:47:19,260
are you know taken by satellites and

1250
00:47:23,359 --> 00:47:20,340
some of them are fairly high resolution

1251
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:23,369
I mean you know I would just say instead

1252
00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:24,570
of throwing up your hands and saying I'm

1253
00:47:27,590 --> 00:47:25,680
waiting for the government to tell me

1254
00:47:29,780 --> 00:47:27,600
what's going on you know that they could

1255
00:47:32,270 --> 00:47:29,790
wait till the cows come home he's better

1256
00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:32,280
to actually figure out well how can we

1257
00:47:37,490 --> 00:47:35,520
in fact look into this it's hard because

1258
00:47:38,930 --> 00:47:37,500
they don't have the resources the

1259
00:47:41,240 --> 00:47:38,940
government has tried at least four or

1260
00:47:42,820 --> 00:47:41,250
five times with various projects you

1261
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:42,830
know the most recent being this thing

1262
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:45,930
that you know 22 million that was spent

1263
00:47:53,870 --> 00:47:50,490
mostly in Las Vegas to to investigate

1264
00:47:55,820 --> 00:47:53,880
what we called a nominal anomalous

1265
00:47:58,010 --> 00:47:55,830
aerial phenomena that's kind of kind of

1266
00:48:00,140 --> 00:47:58,020
thing you know they're coming and they

1267
00:48:02,330 --> 00:48:00,150
have access to all sorts of data that

1268
00:48:04,870 --> 00:48:02,340
you might not have access to but it's

1269
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:04,880
usually it's not secret data I mean I

1270
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:07,050
don't know what to do I mean you can

1271
00:48:11,660 --> 00:48:09,570
certainly there are 10,000 sightings

1272
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:11,670
every year you could just help MUFON and

1273
00:48:17,990 --> 00:48:15,090
look into the best ones yeah yeah

1274
00:48:20,270 --> 00:48:18,000
there's certainly an infinite amount of

1275
00:48:22,010 --> 00:48:20,280
UFO sightings like you see UFOs every

1276
00:48:23,630 --> 00:48:22,020
day but I just assume that they're

1277
00:48:25,820 --> 00:48:23,640
actually planes I can't actually

1278
00:48:28,430 --> 00:48:25,830
identify them the little white dots just

1279
00:48:30,109 --> 00:48:28,440
far away in the sky well when people are

1280
00:48:31,430 --> 00:48:30,119
me up and say that I've got you know

1281
00:48:32,570 --> 00:48:31,440
they usually start their conversation by

1282
00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:32,580
saying I have some important information

1283
00:48:38,390 --> 00:48:35,040
for you and then I know exactly what

1284
00:48:40,540 --> 00:48:38,400
they're going to talk about but you know

1285
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:40,550
I don't think any of these people are

1286
00:48:45,050 --> 00:48:43,050
committing a hoax it's not that they're

1287
00:48:45,829 --> 00:48:45,060
saying that and they're making something

1288
00:48:48,799 --> 00:48:45,839
up they've seen

1289
00:48:50,180 --> 00:48:48,809
something and I will ask do you have any

1290
00:48:52,339 --> 00:48:50,190
photos or videos I mean we don't

1291
00:48:56,479 --> 00:48:52,349
investigate UFOs here that's not our job

1292
00:49:01,069 --> 00:48:56,489
but I I do have a fairly long history in

1293
00:49:03,529 --> 00:49:01,079
photography videography booms and and

1294
00:49:05,690 --> 00:49:03,539
maybe half of them do have photos of

1295
00:49:07,459 --> 00:49:05,700
some sort or other and I say send it to

1296
00:49:11,329 --> 00:49:07,469
me now I'll give you my opinion anyhow

1297
00:49:13,700 --> 00:49:11,339
for what that's worth and maybe half of

1298
00:49:16,249 --> 00:49:13,710
the photos they send like I think I know

1299
00:49:18,589 --> 00:49:16,259
what it is you know internal reflection

1300
00:49:20,900 --> 00:49:18,599
in a zoom lens or you know whatever that

1301
00:49:24,709 --> 00:49:20,910
so the autofocus in a cell phone that

1302
00:49:26,569 --> 00:49:24,719
kind of and I'll give them my opinion it

1303
00:49:29,989 --> 00:49:26,579
doesn't make them happier though I gotta

1304
00:49:31,759 --> 00:49:29,999
say sometimes it does I get quite a few

1305
00:49:33,799 --> 00:49:31,769
of those as well we have a forum on on

1306
00:49:35,870 --> 00:49:33,809
my metal bunk forum called sky identify

1307
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:35,880
which is for identifying things in the

1308
00:49:40,190 --> 00:49:37,410
sky and we do a lot of that type of

1309
00:49:42,079 --> 00:49:40,200
thing people post photos of little white

1310
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:42,089
blobs in the sky and then we say that's

1311
00:49:46,130 --> 00:49:43,890
a reflection or whatever and then we

1312
00:49:47,870 --> 00:49:46,140
kind of explain why it is or we

1313
00:49:49,759 --> 00:49:47,880
sometimes you can't figure out what

1314
00:49:51,349 --> 00:49:49,769
things are because delightfully not

1315
00:49:54,950 --> 00:49:51,359
enough information in the photograph

1316
00:49:56,390 --> 00:49:54,960
right yeah yeah yeah that's true it's

1317
00:49:58,849 --> 00:49:56,400
it's very seldom that people will come

1318
00:50:00,829 --> 00:49:58,859
back and say oh okay thanks that's

1319
00:50:03,589 --> 00:50:00,839
somehow that doesn't seem to be the

1320
00:50:06,019 --> 00:50:03,599
common reaction but occasionally yeah

1321
00:50:07,249 --> 00:50:06,029
yeah all right this has been great

1322
00:50:09,620 --> 00:50:07,259
conversation there's anything else that

1323
00:50:12,229 --> 00:50:09,630
you want to touch on before we close out

1324
00:50:13,729 --> 00:50:12,239
no I don't think so I mean you know tell

1325
00:50:17,690 --> 00:50:13,739
people to keep watching this guy's look

1326
00:50:21,079 --> 00:50:17,700
now the universe is it's vast it's big

1327
00:50:22,670 --> 00:50:21,089
really big as Douglas Adam said and as a

1328
00:50:24,410 --> 00:50:22,680
consequence I'm sure there are plenty of

1329
00:50:26,930 --> 00:50:24,420
aliens out there there trillion planets

1330
00:50:28,969 --> 00:50:26,940
in the in the Milky Way galaxy I don't

1331
00:50:30,950 --> 00:50:28,979
think all of them are sterile so I do

1332
00:50:32,509 --> 00:50:30,960
think they're out there I would argue

1333
00:50:34,969 --> 00:50:32,519
that they're not visiting earth but if

1334
00:50:37,309 --> 00:50:34,979
you feel strongly otherwise you know

1335
00:50:38,730 --> 00:50:37,319
work on proving that to me all right